Community Programming
(he's something like my boss's boss's boss) would like to address the
ad banner situation:
Folks,Thanks,
Joe has told you that
the senior executives here at AOL have been listening to your opinions
and comments about the addition of ads on AOL Journals. I'm
stopping by Magic Smoke to let you know he's been straight with you on
that point.
I'm not here to report that we're changing our
strategy on the ads. The ads are staying for the foreseeable
future. Advertising is an important part of how we make money, and
we're not ashamed of that.
I'll admit we'd all love a “do-over”
when it comes to how this was communicated. On that score, the best we
can do now is to work harder at making sure big changes don't occur
again without proper communication.
We've learned a lot in the
last two weeks... so thank you for your comments here and in email.
We've heard loud and clear that you are passionate about what you
write
about in your blogs. Some of you are convinced that the addition of
ads
destroys that experience. I am less certain of that.
I can't reconcile it with the fact that we have
wonderful,
passionate communities thriving in ad-supported pages in message
boards, Groups, Chat, Hometown, Email, AIM... really across the entire
network both inside the paid service and out.
Just like you, we
don't all see eye-to-eye on this internally. That's understandable.
Since AOL Journals had no ads for so long, I can understand why some
believed that they never would. Some of you have moved on
because
of this and that's understandable too. We're sorry this change has
affected the way you feel about us. We thank you for the contribution
you made while you were here. We will miss your words. We will miss
your passion. If you've moved on to another blog provider,
we
hope you'll maintain the relationships you've made here. You'll always
be welcome in J-Land no matter where you choose to blog.
We've
also learned how important the J-Land community is to the majority of
you who have elected to stay. You are important to this community and
to us, and we appreciate the understanding and support that you've
shown. A special thanks to all the folks who have thrown a virtual hug
around Joe here at Magic Smoke and in email. Thank you for putting
this
bump in the road in your rearview mirror. We're excited about moving
on
as well.
I've asked the team to double down and speed up the
delivery of some new features you've requested. They are eager to get
to it. Some of my favorites that are coming before the end of
the
year:
Buddy List Rostering:
instantly set your
Buddy List as the "roster" for your private Journal - changes to your
Buddy List will update the roster automatically.
Blog This: a new feature
that allows easy creation of new journals and blog entries that link
back to other posts.
Partner Ping:
makes it easier for 3rd party indexers such as
Feedster, Technorati, BlogPulse, PubSub, Google and others to
receive updates to your Journals. This will make your blog easier to
find.
Early in 2006, we're working on mobile blogging, online presence,
skinning,
shared journals and other features that you've mentioned in the past.
We would love to hear from you about which of these features you think
you'd use the most and why.
Thanks,
Bill Schreiner, VP AOL Community Programming.
Email me at: CommProgramming@aol.com,
or leave your comments here.
Bill, for swinging by. This is his first post to Magic Smoke, but I'm
definitely going to make sure it's not his
last...
If you'd like to send him your feedback,
please avail yourselves of the e-mail address
above.
Thanks, and have a great weekend. --
Joe
128 comments:
But I don't care about any of that stuff he says AOL is giving us. I can live with the banner ads, but PLEASE no more of the ones that pop out and take over my journal.
Yes I really dont like the ones that pop out and zoom over my jorunal. I can deal with the ad in the box but the ones that come are disruptive.Im not sure if I understand what benefits the new things provide us he mentioned or if they will be ofinterest to me. I am glad he stopped by to provide you support I know you needed everyone to know You shared all the info you had to give and did not hold back and I do feel you have tried to be a link and go between and have tried to keep us informed. Thank you for that. Have a great weekend
I know I may disappoint some people who are hell bent about the ads, but this was all I was waiting for. I know some will say too little too late, but all I ever wanted was some respect over the issue. I can live with the ads, I just didn't like the disrespect that our concerns were initially given.
That being said, I have fallen in love with Blogspot and I am happy I am there. I will keep my AOL journal up as a mirror site because there are so many wonderful people here, but I just enjoy the flexibility I have in Blogspot.
Chris
http://journals.aol.com/swibirun/Inanethoughtsandinsaneramblings
http://inanethoughtsandinsaneramblings.blogspot.com/
http://www.bigoven.com/~swibirun
I was holding on to hope that they'd care enough to get that mess off our journals. I really hate them...just as much as I hate the idea of moving my blog. I hope that they realize that many bloggers who move will also close accounts. I've been a member for over 10 years, and I feel like...if they don't care about maintaining a loyal customer, then they don't care about the customers PERIOD. It's a gut thing.
Blogspot is wonderful. Its $$ free and its advertising free. I have way more options than I have ever had with AOL. Lots of traffic there too... for those of you that think if you leave JLand that you will be lost in a big sea, don't fear that. My words there are owned by no one but me.
Message here is loud and clear. AOL is fine abusing their members. No guilt or apology whatsoever. I have no interest in staying in an abusive relationship. You had your chance to make things right, but you took the low road.
I have too much integrity to let AOL use me.
I wonder if AOL shareholders know how much AOL cares about their customer base.
We protesters did our best. AOL corporate greed knows no bounds. And yes you were very correct that you must be making money on advertising. Why else would you have replaced what looks like 50% of your content on pages with advertising. Why not just go all the way, remove all content everywhere and just have folks pay for ads exposure.
Shame on you AOL. Shame on you.
Virginia
I've said this before & I will say it again........I have been with AOL since 1996 & I feel AOL does NOT care whether or not they are pleasing the customers. Your ads in the past say you listen to your subscribers, you give us what we want.... That is a lie.
I don't get all the features that other subscribers get, because I have a MAC, I get less...BUT, I pay the same as everyone else. AOL browser is also a problem, so I have to use firefox. So WHY AM I USING AOL???? Certainly not for their wonderful loyal service!
NOW, you tell us, we hear you, we understand how you feel, but we really don't give a hoot! (to put it mildly)
ALL the ads ARE annoying, BILL.
AOL is a big disappointment!
Hey there, this is Rein & I am a AOL user. Something needs to be fixed & it had to be done & I am going to make this comment very short about the blogging & I really wanted to share my own personal problems & I would like to share it, I hope that AOL is doing the right thing & get the whole situation correctly so that there will be no glitches or errors so that every AOL user can use it very friendly.
Thanks for stopping by and taking the time to reflect and comment on what we've been saying. Still not a happy camper, but a camper who likes these woods well enough that she'll over look the defoliation for the time being.
Thank you, Mr. Schreiner. That was a well-written, respectful letter. I feel about 10% better about AOL than I did ten minutes ago.
I'm also crying.
Two and a half weeks on after Black Tuesday, after technical glitches major and minor, after big, visually noisy ads and a tiny, belated disclaimer, after the previously unimaginable trauma this community had suffered, this wonderful letter is a small bandage over a gaping wound. It can't do much to stop the bleeding, but it's a noble effort.
The difference between ads on message boards and ads on journals is that the boards are a shared venue. There is no expectation of autonomy, no illusion of ownership. I thought Musings from Mavarin was something I created, using the tool that AOL provided and hosted for $23.90 a month. I was similarly upset when banner ads first appeared above my home page years ago. Only that time, I sort of blamed myself. Having posted it under http//members.aol.com/kfbofpql/karen.html, I clicked on something that said my pages could be indexed under the new "Hometown" area. The ads are what came with that. It was an unexpected displeasure, but I figured what was done was done.
And again, what's done is done. What comes next, I think, is a parting of the ways.
Karen Funk Blocher
http://journals.aol.com/mavarin/MusingsfromMavarin
http://outmavarin.blogspot.com/
I was going to leave you a comment. but I'd rather just send you a copy of the cmment I left on Susan's journal........here it is:
I am surprised and disappointed that AOL has let this ad deal go on as long as it has.
Isn't there some other space that AOL has not used to place these ads? If I were the CEO's of the companies that these ads belong to, I would DEMAND that AOL pull them off the journals. They are not helping them...they are hurting them.
I myself am sick to death of BANK OF AMERICA'S ad, and would never do any business with them because they have basically harrassed me via AOL. (Not to mention the ad that while I was reading a lady's tearful entry about losing her sister unexpectedly the day before Thanksgiving, I was also being run over by a freaking motorbike. )
All in all...basically what AOL has done is snub their nose at it's customers, and in doing that..well...AOl can not claim to CARE about us anymore, that's for sure....They can do what they want now...but at this late date...We all know better now....it is the almighty dollar they care about.
Carlene Noggle
Comment from tendernoggle - 12/1/05 11:21 PM
How very enlightening to know that AOL equates our blogs with message boards and email. And to think I am actually surprised. My bad. Won't make THAT mistake again.
I'm sure I'll have more to say. But I have to stop laughing first. But until then I'll just concur with Karen.
~~ jennifer
Dear Bill
Speaking as someone who has left the AOL journal community FOR GOOD I have no delusions that you will consider what I am about to say, but here goes anyway. Let's just call this message from you what it really is...
"Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out."
Now there are much more blunt ways to put it, but I think you get my drift. Let me make a suggestion that quite frankly you should consider taking. Instead of the new features you and your crackerjack team are working on to prove that AOL has the very best in Bells and whistles you may want to fix the software problems that are so profound. You guys want the place to look snazzy...ok...but if a bear shits in the woods and there is no one there to smell it...does it really stink? It's a poser...think it over. :)
There, now look what you did, I was less then perfect lady just then. Sigh.
Always, Carly
Gee Dude! (Joe)
I guess I must thank-you for this: Thank-you. However...
This guy makes AOL sound as if they were preparing to host the next Summer Olympics! Is he drunk? Wow! Someone get me a tissue to wipe myself. This is Bunk!
So... When should I expect my check in the mail??
(To Be Cont...)
Well hey now wasnt that just dandy....
Never have I felt like I was just spoken to in such a condescending, PATRONIZING WAY!......I am insulted...
So what of it? Not a damn thing, right? Whatever...Moving on.....
By the way...
"We've also learned how important the J-Land community is to the majority of you who have elected to stay. You are important to this community and to us, and we appreciate the understanding and support that you've shown. A special thanks to all the folks who have thrown a virtual hug around Joe here at Magic Smoke and in email. Thank you for putting this bump in the road in your rearview mirror. We're excited about moving on as well." -Bill Schreiner,
I take Huge issue with so much in this tiny paragraph:
1. "Elected to stay.."
-WTF? - This "Land" was the home I paid "Good Money" for! My friends whom left Didn't "elect" to leave, THEY WERE FORCED TO LEAVE OUT OF PRINCIPLE!!
2. "You are important to this community and to us, and we appreciate the understanding and support that you've shown...."
-Who the hell is he talking about? Do you, or he, have ANY IDEA what the ratio of Supporters were in comparison to Non-supporters of this paid for journal theft?? I'm far from "supportive"! I'm very very bitter!!
3. "A special thanks to all the folks who have thrown a virtual hug around Joe here at Magic Smoke and in email..."
-Oh, so now AOL is showing gratitude to those -in the minority- and is basically saying "Thanks it's been fun." to The Majority for whom have protested and left because of AOL's lack of ANY consideration to WHY they have protested in the first place? Now that's Priceless!!! A "Joke em if they can't take a puck." would have been much easier to BELIEVE.
4. "Thank you for putting this bump in the road in your rearview mirror..."
-Now, That's just plain stupid, very insulting, and NEVER even a CONSIDERATION in my mind. There is NO WAY this guy just got away with putting those words into my mouth... Did he??!!!
Never in all my days!!!!......
Well, at least someone finally came out and gave us the final word.... So, no compromise, no trying to make it work, no taking of any suggestions. .... Why even ask for suggestions if they weren't going to pay attention to them? I've been a member of AOL for well over 10 years, and this is the first time I've actually considered NOT being a member... I think more than anything I am disappointed.. too little, too late...
What a joke.
I don't like ads on the message boards. Then again, I don't like the new format of them, either. Of the many workable internet formats out there for MBs, AOL chose none of them and instead went with something ugly, difficult to navigate, and one that provides more room for ....(wait for it).... Ads!
I don't like ads on my email, either. That's why I slowly moved the bulk of my emailing over to gmail. Yes, gmail has ads. Nice, AdSense ads that try to match the subject of my mail, and that sit quietly in text format only off to the side, out of the way.
I don't like ads on journals when I was payng for the service and AIM folks were getting all sorts of extras, including their own journals. Ads vs no ads were what separated them for us. No more. And why pay for the cow when you can get the milk for free? So I cancelled my account and am now piggybacking on someone else's, someone with a screen name to spare. Yes, my hubby likes AOL, but since he just uses it to surf the web and his PC usually has to use dial-up, it's his best option. I have the cable modem and Firefox. The journals and message boards were what I was keeping AOL for. Now I have no reason, especially when I can get ad-free blogs for free on Blogger.
To be continued...
Part 2:
I find it astonishing and appalling that it took this long for a company with the experience AOL has in online service to have anyone try to communicate with its journal users and not even a true apology, just an oops, we shoulda told you first.
And here I am, counting characters to make sure I can post this entire comment, on a service that takes 2 steps back for each one forward, that can't roll out improvements and enhancements on a reasonable schedule, that hasn't yet grasped the need to communicate with customers.
Someone asked if AOL's stockholders know about this poor customer service. Time Warner's major stockholders (aka Carl Icahn and his group) are the ones demanding that TW and AOL become more profitable or he'll force TW to sell AOL (yes, I read the business pages). I knew from the start that the ads were staying. Woulda been nice for Mr. Schreiner or someong else at his level to have communicated this earlier in the brouhaha. It's not like they couldn't have known what was going on.
Joe: I know when you say "Message from Above" you are referring to the corporate tower but from Bill's remarks I suspect his head is truly in the clouds, or, more likely, in a very dark place ....
Bill: The best you can do to appease the little people is your meager "we'd all love a 'do-over'? I am insulted but it is the undertone of indifference to anyone but your advertisers that rings loudest. You've learned a lot in the last two weeks?! I could not tell from the patronizing tone of your message.
AOL has missed a golden opportunity to get some truly favorable press (which you and I both know you guys could use!!) by acknowledging you screwed up royally on this one and, as a good will gesture, you are re-thinking/removing the ads on our journals. Talk about a coup! Everyone would be talking about the Jimmy Stewart attitude the mega-industry AOL took when dealing with their very best commodity - the paying public. Remember how Harvey Weinstein handled his employees? That continues to get press and I remember it even though I am a WASP from Texas. Harvey may have had his warts but when given the opportunity, he did the right thing.
As it is, many of us who have been loyal AOL customers FOR YEARS, paying almost $25 a month for the pleasure of being part of the AOL "community" are bitter, disillusioned and, make no mistake, quite vocal. There are too many choices on the Internet and your assumption that this is in our "rearview mirror" reflects your abysmal lack of comprehension of the real message AOL has sent.
Oh, yes ... throwing in your commerical about what you guys are preparing for us would be laughable if it weren't so sad. To quote John Stossal, "Give me a break!!!"
Donna
Well Joe, I must admit, you gave me my Christmas wish. A talking AOL head to spew more rhetoric.
Hello Mr. Bill, so nice of you to FINALLY drop by and give some sort of statement. Nothing like being a little late for the party. Most of the guests have left, and many more are putting their coats on and heading for the door. The tone of your comments was more or less what I got when I called to complain about the ads in the first place, and then when I called to cancel my account.
As far as I can see, your point seems to be, if I'm not mistaken...
1) We here at AOL don't need you, we won't compromise our position or even listen to your suggestions...
2) You our loyal customers, you don't matter and you never really have...
3) You can kiss our ass, whoops I meant ads, and either take it or leave it...
Your attitude, not the ads is why I am gone, why I'm no longer a member of AOL as of tomorrow morning. I canceled my AOL service last Saturday to become effective my next billing period the 4th. AOL's lack of customer support, their disrespect of their members is why my journal moved to a free account with no ads. I have watched AOL service hit the pits in the last 4 or 5 years, but being a creature of habit, it was easier to put up with it than change. This last 2½ weeks have been the last straw that I just can't put up with any longer.
It's too bad you just don't have a clue. I did not choose to leave. You and your bosses and co-workers made that choice for me. As a creature of habit, I would probably still be there if this had not happened.
You can catch me at http://lyndaslullaby2.blogspot.com now. I'm getting used to the place, and enjoying the many benefits of a free account. Also, the road runner is working out great. No ads on my email either! Fancy that!
Go suck a lemon,
Aun
Don't know how AOL managed to screw it up, but that last post was from me,
Auntie Lyn
now lab2401@cfl.rr.com
I'm not only tired of the ads on journals, I'm tired of ads in my mail, on my mail, on the welcome screen, on my mailbox feature on message boards, on every page I look at. What's next? Ads on instant messenger? in chat rooms? my buddy list?
When does it end? When 1,000 customers complain? 10,000?
You created a space for people to use as their personal space. Then you spammed it. Unfortunately 1,000 people didn't create a fuss and take action. Shame on them, and shame on you AOL for spamming your own customers.
Susan
Are you people KIDDING ME? You asked to hear from the AOL exec who makes decisions. You got it. You asked to have the flying scooter removed. You got it. You asked for spell check. You got it. You asked for someone to tell you if the ads will be removed. You got it several times over. You asked for disclaimers on the ads. You got that too. And now you're saying AOL isn't compromising and paying attention to your suggestions?
AOL admitted that they screwed up by not informing you about the ads ahead of time. They apologized. WHAT MORE CAN THEY DO??? You people aren't giving them a chance to redeem themselves. No matter what they do, it won't be enough for you. They can remove the ads tomorrow and you'll still say "too little too late."
NOBODY likes the ads, but they aren't going away. Many of you are boycotting your journals. But very few are cancelling accounts. I have news for you. AOL can STILL pitch their ad space by telling potential advertisers that they have 600,000 paid sets of eyes looking at journals. Whether yours is private (in protest) or no longer being used (in protest) or not, they can still say they have thousands of journals to put ads on. Many of you have said that you'll cancel your accounts once you get your journals moved. Instead of spending your day leaving numerous comments in AOL "official" journals, why not spend that time moving your journals?
GET A CLUE PEOPLE! Either make a difference and cancel your accounts or QUIT COMPLAINING!
Okay: That's 20 to 1 and it's only the first quarter!
At "my" count, that ain't good! Or, maybe, you guys are Really as backasswards as you read!
hmmmmm.....
Thanks for all of your EMORMOUS understanding.....
Oops, too bad Spell Check didn't make it this far..
Forgive me..
::sigh::
sigh.
well Mr. Schreiner - if you were *truly* listening to our concerns and comments like you claim here -
this letter would have had a completely different tone and content.
like - for one - our journals would be ad-free. effective yesterday.
like - for two - there would have been a sincere apology and a few words about oh, I dunno - learning a valuable lesson about customer appreciation, and loyalty, and satisfaction..
like - for three - you would look forward to rebuilding the community with *us* -
and value our joined efforts to make it even better than it once was...
like - for four - if the martha stewart debacle taught you all anything - is that greed doesn't pay.
like - for five - bad marketing makes for bad PR and bad PR is not good for the company...or the shareholders.
Like - for six - the customer is always right. Yah, remember that one?
there might be a few others in there that I missed -
and I'm sure my colleagues here will help me continue the list...
in the meantime bill - go back to your corporate napping.
You still have dark circles under your eyes - and that probably explains why once again, you made a bad decision even worse, with this big stinking group hug of a post.
and don't worry - in case you fell asleep while reading this - I'll email you it too, just to be sure *you* were listening.
"As America Online turns more toward advertising dollars to offset the shrinking number of subscribers who pay a monthly fee, the company may be upsetting the longtime customers who have remained faithful over the years."
The lesson here? The best way to save a floundering business model is to alienate your remaining consumer base.
When your mass-marketing strategy for delivering 1025 free hours of AOL into the hands of every man, woman, child, orangutan and flying squirrel on the planet fails...DON'T think to update your marketing strategy. NEVER adapt. REFUSE to change -- all while the amorphous internet continually reshapes itself.
Cheers to you, AOL. If the Cretaceous era taught us anything, it's that adaptation is overrated."
http://beyondmediatv.com/
So, let's sum this up without all the political bureaucratic BS:
What you're saying is: We hear you. We don't care. We need money. Shut up or leave.
Seems you forget that we pay you, too. Ads have already been plastered all over AOL in every other aspect. Why can't you leave the journals we pay for ad free? Put them in the email alerts, like the foreign journals have?
How many employees does it take to screw up AOL?
I keep counting more....
Cat
PS I never blamed Joe. These decisions are made at higher levels. Hope he's keeping an eye on his retirement fund, though.... just in case you guys get desperate enough for more money.
Someone tell me this: How many US AOL journals are there?
I'm sure one of you at AOL knows.....
You can even answer in email.
Cat
Part 2
You need to switch tactics or eventually there will be no members left to see those advertisements.
You said: " Some of you are convinced that the addition of ads destroys that experience. I am less certain of that. I can't reconcile it with the fact that we have wonderful, passionate communities thriving in ad-supported pages in message boards, Groups, Chat, Hometown, Email, AIM... really across the entire network "
Yeah, but what you didn't expect was that we have found we can keep our community alive elsewhere, for free and where we won't be exploited. The journal community that once thrived here is no more. It's cracked. If you can't see that, you truly are blind.
I'm sure you're excited about moving on. It means less bad exposure for YOU. But then again, it's always been about YOU and never about us. It's not a bump in the road. For some of us, it's the end of the road.
As for what feature I'd use the most... Blogspot.com, that's what. Since you're so open to keeping ties alive, why don't you stop over at my new ad-free blog. http://reflectionsofari.blogspot.com/ I even made a cartoon about this very thing this morning.
Oh and you can look forward to many more. I emailed you about seven times yesterday. Not one of those emails were read.
Ari
Thanks for finally responding, but I don't believe a word you say. I don't trust you. I have no reason to. None of what AOL is today is what I signed up for. When does it end? Are you going to put ads in instant messages, buddy lists? Will our desktop turn into one big giant advertisement eventually? How many more of our features will be given to non-AOL users for free?
You say you aren't ashamed that advertising is an important part of how you make money. Well you should be ashamed, because it's obviously that customer appreciation is not important to you at all. Perhaps if you worried about that a little more, you wouldn't have to seek out advertisers. Perhaps if you truly worried about the wants and needs of your customers, you wouldn't be losing them at such a dramatic rate.
"Dollar" Bill,
You and AOL had your chance to make things right. You blew it. And I'm not surprised. Disappointed, but not surprised.
In case it hasn't been spelled out to you clearly, none of us cares for corporate whoredom. And that is exactly what you have turned this into now.
Go scratch.
My letter to "MR. SCHREINER"
"We've learned a lot in the last two weeks... so thank you for your comments here and in email. We've heard loud and clear that you are passionate about what you write about in your blogs."
Basically another way of saying "Enough" with the emails & comments. Very tacky!
As someone with a Masters in Industrial Psychology, I just can't believe your company is doing this. "Do-Over"? The examples I can think of from other companies who also would love a "do-over". How it hurt them greatly.
"...senior executives here at AOL have been listening..." Yep, one can always listen or always have an open door policy. People know the difference between listening & responding with action to make customers happy...oh wait, maybe that is it? Come in & say what every you like, we'll still do what we want to do.
"Not ashamed of making money through advertising..." hmmm one wonders what else you would do if it meant you would make money. No, we don't expect you to be non-for-profit, but how you say things can be very damaging.
Do not assume that those who have stayed thus far, like me, will continue to do so. We have holidays & being busy we are not moving YET. Some are also holding out to see what may happen. I know I will be leaving after the holidays. If we were so important to you, this would not be happening in the first place.
Lovely persuasion tactic with the new features being rushed. I'll have to use that as an example in my Social Psych courses.
I wonder if Julia Roberts knows about all this?
Thanks for responding but I dont believe a word you say either. But ya know, I was reading between the lines, as taught in all my psych courses and it seems you wont get rid of the ads and all you are saying to the people that left is "forget them. Sorry you left, too bad. Have fun elsewhere, we dont care." With the holidays coming, im not moving mine yet, unless you get some REALLY good features, but im not impressed with what you mentioned here yet. Ill be moving in 2006 to blogspot for good if the ads arent gone. What a load of BS this letter is. :/
I think that comparing the Journals to the message boards and the inbox shows that the upper echelon doesn't realize how personal a product the Journals were to your paying subscribers. The message boards are a public-style forum that everyone shares, so the ads there are not a big deal. There are ads on the email inbox, but as of yet, none in the individual emails themselves. So, no big deal. There is a thing in business called goodwill. AOL has not taken this into consideration with their handling of the Ad situation. They have alienated an admittedly small segment of their customer base here at AOL, but I think that with the philosphy expressed here, it won't be long until Management succeeds in finding a way to do the same to every one of their customers.
AOL will do business well beyond the days of this discussion, but I believe that AOL has taken another foolish turn in its management style. Other businesses are sprouting up alongside AOL, offering better ways to do the things that the average person uses the Internet for. MySpace offers a superior product for those who wish to create "Personal Web Space", Cable Providers are hard at work enhancing their product, rather than diminishing it, which makes it more desirable to choose them over AOL. Everyone in the business is making a strong effort to provide things which make the customers happy, but yet AOL continues to follow a business model which fails to take into consideration the customer base on which it survives.
From the tone of Mr. Schreiner's comments, it appears that the paid Journal users are assets that AOL can afford to lose. I wonder how an advertiser would feel about being sold space in an area that AOL does not consider to be very important.
No one really complained about the ads on the message boards for too long, or the ads on the email inboxes for that matter. This leads me to ask why the Honchos didn't see the red flags when there was such a tremendous outcry from Journal users?
Dear Mr. Schreiner, we've been expecting you. I guess better late than never, right? Finally we know what AOL's position is in this situation. The ads remain. I'm not surprised by that one. You're not ashamed for making money off of ads. That also was expected. But beyond that is where you completely broadsided me. You apologize, but only for the way the changes affected the way we felt about you (AOL). I was hoping for an apology for the length of time we were forced to wait for any official response, and also for the poor quality of customer service this whole matter has been treated with. You admit that the communication could have been better. You claim to hear us loud and clear and understand how we feel and yet you doubt the extent to which some people claim their experience has been affected because of the addition of ads. You are happy that many are willing to move on and tempt those who remain with exciting new features while seeming almost eager to bid farewell to those who have chosen to leave. You requested faster service to make the new features available. New features like optimized linking, for optimized traffic and ad exposure? Partner Ping, so its easier for others to find us and increase ad traffic? Excuse me if I seem skeptical but I get the impression that the new AOL is about the advertising client, and not the user/member.
For what its worth I appreciate you coming forward and addressing us now, but I do not view this matter as a bump in the road and I am not walking away from it just yet.
For the record, the reason I thought that my AOL spaces would be ad free was because when I signed up for AOL, and up until recently AOL was a members only service. With the introduction of free AIM accounts, more and more services that were once only available to paying members were opened up to the free accounts. While announcements were made as these AIM accessable sites became available, where were the announcements that the service was no longer a part of our paid membership? Why were we not informed of the changes to the services included in our account? Our members benefits and priveleges kept changing and while we were informed of the additions but I don't recall one instance in the years I've been a subscriber where I was informed that a particular service was no longer a membership feature. Thats like changing the rules in the middle of the game. I have a real problem with that. If you're going to take something away from us, let us know. Don't try to distract us with other things and hope we don't notice.
Folks,
Why don't you make money the old-fashioned way? EARN IT!!! I know it's a quaint notion and not very politically-correct in the brave, new, Republikan world, where the rich are over-taxed to the point where they cannot even afford a new Maserati, and every CEO HAS to make $millions, PLUS perks and benefits, without, of course, actually DOING ANYTHING of any value, other than hiring more sycophantic losers like the one who would write such a smarmy letter as the one you present here. You are making money off MY CREATIVITY, and that of others, WITHOUT CONTRIBUTING ANYTHING TO THE PROCESS! Imagine if the phone companies had done such a thing in their nascent periods---do you think phones would be as ubiquitous as they are today, had everyone HAD to listen to an ad EVERYTIME they made a phone call? THAT'S what you are: A GLORIFIED PHONE COMPANY! You just said, "It's OUR ball, and THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT! The fact that we pay for membership DESERVES more than an offhanded set of remarks about how you are going to provide more bells and whistles! The ONLY people impressed are YOU people, with how cool you are. The rest of us are mostly disgusted and THAT HAS NEVER BENEFITTED ANY BUSINESS! I don't espect you to understand this, but the reason for those "old sayings" is that they have meaning, regardless of time or place, OR technological improvements. Here's one you NEED to heed: "Those who fail to learn the lessons of History are condemned to repeat it"! Remember the crash of tech stock in the waning years of the 20th Century (I know it was SOOOOOOOOOO long ago, speaking cybernetically)? People got tired of techies promising "BLUE SKY" and delivering coke parties on yachts for themselves! Beware the ides of your own making here.
"The addition of daily blog data from BlogPulse advances AOL's mission of being one of the leading destinations Web users visit to find out what's happening in the World and on the Internet, and what people are talking about. The blog trend data we will be receiving from BlogPulse will keep visitors to the AOL network connected to and informed about the fast-growing blogging community," said Bill Schreiner, Vice President, AOL Community.
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:T3hUNYcnNG0J:www.intelliseek.com/releases2.asp%3Fid%3D143+%22Bill+Schreiner%22+aol&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
it would've been a win-win situation if the bloggers were satisfied. however, a portion (be it big or small) are angry, frustrated and sad. um, way to go. isn't your job to increase traffic? i wonder has that happened yet? or is it better for the naysayers to go on to other pastures and prevent less negative publicity for AOL?
oh yeah, happy holidays.
Subscriptions pay for your wages as well as advertising, you are a company, not a state-run nationlised service and you stand or fall on customer relations. The people that put food on your table deserve a damn sight more respect than being part of your now rearviewed bump in the road. Where I come from, complaints are dealt with on a complainer to complainant basis, so I hope this dismissive and offensive, patronising letter is not all you have to offer those that are unhappy. They are your customers and they have a right to be dealt with one to one, they PAY for that right. Prolific membership does not exempt you from following sensible and compassionate customer relations, prolific membership can very quickly become dwindling membership. If you are not ashamed of adverttising being part of your revenue, then you are saying, quite openly, that you feel it is appropriate for you to make money off the back of other people's creative talents AFTER they have paid you for the space to express that talent.
Having worked in media, I appreciate the value of advertising, but I also appreciate the value of the end consumer. In every media outlet I know, advertising rates are determined by how many people are reached. Advertising may drive profitability, but the number of satisfied customers willing to pay to be reached by advertising has always determined advertising rates and the appeal of a media product to an advertiser. Continue disrespecting your end-line customer, and your advertisers won't be happy about the effectiveness of your product. Your letter with its carefully couched words promoted a lot of features that would have made me excited a few weeks ago, but now I see them as cheap enticements which will probably cause more problems. I don't think you understand how condescending your letter came across. The comment about Joe being straight on this issue made me wonder how many times he hasn't been straight with the AOL journallers. As readers, we know he is an employee and must support and promote the company line, but that little slip makes one wonder if lying to the journallers is an unfortunate part of his job responsibility. I've been an AOL subscriber for several years and have seen the product and services change frequently during that time. That never led me to believe that journals would always remain the same. Your comment about former AOL journallers, like myself, always being welcome in J-land came across as corporate arrogance. The journal writers determine who will be welcome in their AOL journals, and that comment could imply that that feature could be assumed by AOL, eliminating even more more control over a space that had been promoted as the subscriber's own.
Cont.
I have made my two year old AOL journal private, and as soon as it is completely saved, it will be deleted. The decision I must make next is whether to continue with AOL as my ISP. Compared to other company's rates, AOL's price is at a premium. The services your company promotes heavily, like internet security and spam protection are increasingly available elsewhere at lower cost, and the features which kept me loyal to AOL, like the journals, have been devalued by corporate policies.
This message was also emailed to Bill Schreiner.
B.S. stands for more than just Bill Schreiner, whose words are a testament to the complete lack of any semblance of Integrity at the AOL Executive level.
There is no wonder AOL has realized a steady decline in its customer base.
YaY ! Does this mean we'll stop hearing about this now since everyone has had their say ? If I was as pissed off as some of the commenters here are I would of canceled my account LOOOOONG ago. Action is worth more than words. JMHO.
Happy Holidays !!
NJLB
http://journals.aol.com/njlittlebear/MyBigFatGeekLife
"The ads are staying for the foreseeable future. Advertising is an important part of how we make money, and we're not ashamed of that."
You people are making money TWICE off of the people who subscribe to your internet service when they use your crappy journal service. Ashamed to admit that????
I'm not ashamed to say that Blogger is my new home for journaling, and after this cavileer attitude from an AOL VP about the ads, I will be looking for new internet service as well. AOL, you screwed up BIG TIME with this one...hope your new ads make you a lot of money because you're going to need it. People are leaving in DROVES, and not just for the ads you've been splashing EVERYWHERE in your entire service. They don't call it AOHELL for nothing!
I have canceled my subscription to AOL. I posted my cancellation letter on the message board when I did cancel a few weeks ago. Strangely enough I have found that I have ALL of the same benefits for FREE now that I was paying $54.95 a month for.
I have posted an "Exodus Report" that I think really puts your active journal numbers claims into perspective. If I was an AOL advertiser on these journals and had been "Hustled" that 600,000 journals number I think I would sue AOL for FRAUD.
You can check out the report at:
http://gabreaelsbodymindandspirit.blogspot.com/
Gabreael
I have the feeling that they still don't care about anything except making a buck. I do not consider the ads "a bump". It is a major ugly wound across the tops of every jnl in J-land. The journals are only slightly more than two years old. I guess they consider that a long time in web years, I don't know. I think that the community has been altered to a point where it will have to be rebuilt.
I, for one, would like non-AOL readers to be able to comment on my journal. I would like to be able to make a draft of my entry and I would like the dag-gone spell check to work!
Somehow, I thought this communique was condescending.
Mary
http://journals.aol.com/deabvt/DeablerVT/entries/1191
A counterpoint to the 600,000 Journals propaganda.
http://journals.aol.com/deabvt/DeablerVT/
V
(part one)
Still amazed at the condescending arrogance of this entry . . . . it is so filled with obnoxious comments its actually hard to address them all. The commenters before me have done a nice job.
AOL's first mistake is to think that the hemorrhage of lost members can be measured only by those loudly protesting members that have already left during these few weeks.
First, leaving will be on two levels. There are some will stay with AOL but who have or will move their journals elsewhere. Result, reduced AOL journal traffic.... something your advertisers won't like. Second, there are many who have or will ultimately cancel their AOL account. Canceling an account requires a good exit strategy. Shopping around for a better service (and there are plenty to choose from). Personal and business contacts need to be given a new email address. Subscriptions using the email address need to be altered, etc. All this takes time. With the holidays coming, many will likely wait until the new year, when they have more time, to take care of the details of their exit strategy. (But what stories do you think they will be telling at the office holiday parties?) If a website was on AOL, a new hosting provider will need to be located. No rush, time to shop around, and in doing so, people will see better web sites can be had, with many more options to personalize, for less money than the AOL subscription ever provided.
Virginia
(part two)
This hemorrhage will continue into the following weeks and months.
The second erroneous assumption you have made with this string of incredibly stupid business decisions is that once people have left, that will be the end to the bad press for AOL and their voices will be silent. You have made people really really angry and this letter above is the icing on that accomplishment. (Not one bit of healing was offered "from above".) That isn't easily forgotten. People will tell their friends and their families what happened to them, and word will spread about such horrible customer treatment and how AOL doesn't care at all about the customers, contrary to the TV ads, but only begs at the feet of advertisers. (If you wanted people to be silent, you should have been apologetic in your letter, not arrogant and condescending. You just added fuel to the flames.)
The third error you have made is in forgetting the basic fact that for every one customer that complains to you, there are 10 silent customers that feel the same way.
You have laid waste to the JLand community, although you want to pretend otherwise. You want this to be "a bump in the road" when in fact it was a 100 car pile up. You want to distract those remaining with "new features" when in fact those "features" are there only to help drive more advertising sales.
This ship is taking on water . . . . and the AOL band is playing on.
Virginia
ahhhhh Bill, this says it all. AOL has no soul. judi
So, basically he is saying, "Shut up you guys.".... No, no one was REALLY heard, it is obvious. Mr Schreiner, this is a tacky letter, very tacky
adding insult to injury.. gee.. i swear i read somewhere (maybe here?! Oooo) that the SMACK IN YOUR FACE SCOOTER was taken care of... guess i need new glasses then because it just jumped out and went all over the "journal" part of my journal... imagine that!
I am one of those people who knew the ads would not go away.. but was hoping for a "compromise"... sigh.. i just don't get it. I just don't get why not a "compromise?"... the ad is paid for.. ok so be it.. an ad.. DOES IT HAVE TO BE ANIMATED?? does it have to add so much to the download by being a huge file?...
Gimme a break! I'm on dialup! And even if i wasn't I'd still be happy as the fish that got away if you'd just CONSIDER THE FACT I AM A HUMAN BEING and treat me as such. I am more then willing to come half way... ad stays.. animation goes!.. I'm still in shock that an ad would go OVER MY WRITTEN WORDS!..
Pahleeeze!...can't someone at aol figure out how to maintain their business dignity and not give up customer service???
http://journals.aol.com/deslily/HereThereandEverywhere/
http://herethereandeverywhere2ndedition.blogspot.com/
http://journals.aol.com/jevanslink/AskMrsLinklater/entries/2221
Here's my response to this letter. I didn't win an OUTSPOKEN VIVI for nothing.
Mrs. L
Hi Bill,
I'm Ayn. I have been an AOL subscriber under Aynetal, Aynetal2, or Aynetal3, back to '93 when you were all charging per minute. This last week a few friends and I put together, what we are calling the Exodus Report. It can be found on my new Blog site over at Blogger, or at my old AOL Journal site, which I had maintained for 27 months. The report can also be found at a few others such as the message board, Vince's, and Gabreael's. It is my hope others will pick up the report, to know better where we are at as a number on your ledgers and sold to advertisers.
Basically, what I am saying is giving you all the most benefit of doubt and according to the numbers generated by looking at 995 journals(journalists), AOL's number of 600,000 journals is highly inflated even if it did include worldwide numbers. The representative number of journals that could be counted at Pam's directory suggests that about half the journalists have turned away from your Journal product. I invite you to look at the reports, and to speak more clearly on your relationship with the declining number of journalists (customers of your advertisers goods).
Sincerely,
Ayn(Ann) Garvey
http://messageboards.aol.com/aol/en_us/articles.php?boardId=534372&func=3&channel=Computers+%26+Electronics&is_mod=1
http://aynetal3.blogspot.com/2005/12/numbers-like-friends-can-be-counted-on.html
http://journals.aol.com/aynetal3/AynsMPDWorld/
http://deabvt.blogspot.com/
http://gabreaelsbodymindandspirit.blogspot.com/
<<Advertising is an important part of how we make money, and we're not ashamed of that.>>
Advertising IS how publishers make money. No one's denying that or saying that AOL shouldn't create profits for its shareholders.
It's the LOCATION of the advertising that's a problem here. If you think that journals in which people have invested hours and hours of individual and personal creativity are the same as message boards, grous, chats, etc., then you really don''t know your clientele. Of course, if you don't care to know us, that's entirely your business. Pun intended, I guess.
No one would argue that the Chicago Marshall Field's windows aren't an aspect of advertising. But advertising that CREATES good will rather than destroys it, and advertising that makes space for the creative spark in its customers. See: http://searchthesea.blogspot.com (my new home). You had actually created such a space, something special in today's over-merchandized, over-commericalized, over-marketed world, and instead of taking pride in it, you trashed it.
I won't deny AOL has to make money. They're losing members by the truckload, but there has to be an amicable solution, instead of us still continuing to be ignored or slighted once again.
When I first saw this letter from this dude, I was finally relieved that someone allegedly with some kind of authority decided to come slumming with the gutter trash, which is what AOL thinks we are.
But after reading this letter again, I've realized how insulting and condescending it is. He just regurgitated what Journal Editor wrote when this first started which basically was:
Don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you. You've been loyal customers for all these years, but too bad so sad, buh-bye. And he doesn't do a good David Spade imitation.
Oh also, hey, please don't tell your journal programmers and staff to double down and speed up delivery. This last update speaks volumes of the technical acumen of who you've got working for you. Hamsters running in wheels....
"Folks,
Joe has told you that blah blah blah, ad nauseum"
Translation: Sure we listened, but we don't give a rat's behind what you think... TW says we better make a profit, so your concerns don't matter if it gets in the way of $$... Besides, there are always more suckers where you came from... And all this nice verbiage is just to make me sound benevolent and concerned when I'm really wasting my valuable time on useless slugs like yourselves... So if you want to hit the road, go right ahead... It's no skin off our collective behinds and what you feel never mattered anyway... Don't you know we're in this to make money...? Now shut up and stop making us look bad...
"I've asked the team to double down and speed up the delivery of some new features you've requested. They are eager to get to it. Some of my favorites that are coming before the end of the year: blah blah blah some more..."
Translation: Here, Cerberus - have some sops so you won't chew my head off...
"Thanks,
Bill Schreiner, VP AOL Community Programming."
Translation: Thanks, Dollar Bill Scrounger, VP AOL Community Brush Off.
At least now we know AOL's official position, eh...? Thanks *so* much, Bill, for that condescending, belittling shove-off...
I like it that an AOL muckety-muck has finally commented, albeit in a journal called "Blowing Smoke." Well, maybe that *should* be the name...
Bravo Mrs. L!
Bravo!
Virginia
Hi Joe and Bill-:
I am just one voice in J Land but would like to express how good it is to hear from another corner on what AOL is actually thinking after the upheaval here in our community. Thank you for coming forward and making a statement. It's very good to see that someone is listening and someone does care beyond those we have all ready heard from.
While I don't like the banner ads, I am one who is staying. I have friends here who are staying, friends who are leaving and friends who have left. It's really been a very emotional time for our community. This entry does help us at least put some closure on this situation and perhaps will open the door for each person to move on past the changes in their own way. I respect the decision of those who feel the need to stay or to move and hope that each person will continue to write somewhere.
Lisa
http://journals.aol.com/randlprysock/AdventuresFromFlorida/
oh. my. god. If I were to use the little brains the good Lord gave me I'd think that the flying scooters, the disclaimer, and all the little extras (after the fact) were only something that was thrown out so AOL could say, "didn't we do everything we could to please you?? look what we did for you almost on demand?". Mr. Schreiner, you don't fool me! And I resent the fact that you think I have less to offer than you do! Never let it be said that you didn't leave your mark on the world. (in the form of advertising, of course) Did you deliberately make the journals worse so you could spruce them up a bit to shut us up??? AOHELL SUCKS!
"Advertising is an important part of how we make money, and we're not ashamed of that."
If you've got a Quiznos ad above an entry about an eating disorder, you should be ashamed.
If you've got a credit check ad above an entry about someone's financial collapse, you should be ashamed.
If you've got a Match .com ad above an entry about a painful divorce, you should be ashamed.
There is more to life than money.
Thanks for the virtual butt kissing. I think I need a shower.
PS: Just so you don't think I'm blowing things out of proportion, I was just reading a journal entry by a blogger who lost her sister and nephew to a tragic car accident four months ago today. And what should be featured at the top but a CAR INSURANCE AD!!!
Hope you enjoy your blood money.
Joe,
How about the change to the About Me section so that we aren't so limited in size?? Is that something you guys are working on?
~Danielle
Danielle,
In answer to your question here,
The reason they haven't made the "about me" larger to accomodate more information, is....
drum roll here please...
AOL doesn't really care about you darling, they don't care what you put there, if you have enough room to write what you would like to or if you like the way things go down. They just don't care!!!!
Auntie Lyn
8½ year member thrown out just like trash, who is now thankful that AOL showed it's colors for the last time and drove me to leave.
thanks. New skins to the journals, new fonts, and any other bells and whistles are always appreciated. Anything that can add to the creativity and ease and fun of the journaling experience is always welcome. How 'bout some cursive font?
Disappointed still in the ad that appears above my journal. I had always considered that space as my personal page and feel we have been betrayed. I understand you are not sure of that being important or I think you said unsure that it destroys our experience. And understandibly, it wouldn't be to someone who is being paid by AOL to run ads and has not worked hard on creating what is considered to be "your personal web page" known as "my journal" to it's owner. On the other hand, I do see your point and understand that bigger companies that run ads pay far more for their ads than we pay for our journals. In lite of that I wonder if soon they will cover 75% of the page. Please don't take the idea...just throwing some humor in. I can see those money signs clouding over any feelings we might have in our J-Land. So in light of that, money speaks loudly and I can see your point on that front. I am in the business world myself. But I would like an ad free journal on my personal page that I've worked hard on, that I call "mySouthernHome". It is a piece of me that does not include BankAmerica. Bank America has not sat in my dining room and looks odd on my page. Verizon does not come to dinner. And I didn't create the Walmart ad on PSP and don't anyone to think I did. LOL. Have a nice day, just wanted to get my 50 cents worth in.
Sonya
Oh yeah....I would like more room in the about me section. So it can be longer. Not that I have anything more I want to write about me....but it's always fun to put seasonal graphics in there and also to write things like "Current book" etc. I have to shorten things to get those things in. That would be awesome to have more space there and probably easy for the techies to do ?????
I'm going to go out on a limb here. But I would presume that if America Online asked of Mr. Bill to work his little creative fingers off, put in hours of effort, and take pride in his product to attract customers/investors/advertisers, all for the benefit of the company, but to do it all at no charge, no profit, no gain to him personally, well, I'll bet he'd go elsewhere too. After all, loyalty does have its limits, does it not? That lesson has certainly been proven.
I choose not to give away my efforts to profit anyone but myself, or those of MY choosing, either financially or emotionally. It's called sound business practice.
~~ jennifer
JOURNAL ADVERTISING SUCKS
AOL TURNED THEIR BACKS ON
THE CUSTOMERS THAT GOT THEM
WHERE THEY ARE
INTEGRITY IS NOTHING BUT A
BUZZWORD AT AOL
Joe & Bill,
Thanks for publishing this. Many of us have been asking for an "official" statement from AOL, and like what we found here or not, at least we got that statement. For that much, I AM grateful.
On the other hand, now that we've gotten what we asked for, we must deal with it. For one thing, as others have already stated, no one expects AOL to become a not-for-profit organization. I certainly don't expect AOL to be "ashamed" of the fact that some of their advertising generates revenue. This is common sense. But your suggestion that you AREN'T ashamed of that ONCE AGAIN underscores how much AOL, the company itself, DOESN'T GET THE POINT!
You want a "do-over?" You REALLY want one? Here's what you do: you pull the ads off of paid members' blogs. You rework the system, allowing for blog writers to select the specific sponsors that will appear on their blogs and to prohibit companies with which they have personal reasons for not wanting to promote. Then you restart the ad policy after giving your journal writers PROPER notice IN ADVANCE. That much you CAN do if you REALLY want a "do-over."
As I said, now that we've gotten what we asked for, we must process it and deal with it. You assume I'm "putting this in my rearview mirror." Thanks to THIS letter, I'm putting AOL there as well.
I'm done.
Thanks. And good riddance to you too.
I see you're thrilled with what we created for you. No worries. We've moved. No more sandboxes for us. We live on the beach!
VP for aol Community Programming ... impressive, we're sure. The attitude toward the "community"? Not so much. How does driving paying customers away benefit the company? The fewer members, the fewer viewers for those violative adverts. Not only that, journalers are alienated by the sponsors of the ads and will refuse to do business with them. Did anyone think of that? The sponsors may come to realize that they are losing business due to this debacle and refuse to continue to sponsor the ads. We await that day. And no, this protest will not go away.
Bon & Mal
Holy crap.
Once and for all, how about finding a SOLUTION to the ad problem?!? The disclaimer is NOT a solution. DO YOUR JOB, sir, and FIX this issue.
Once again, AOL is showing why they're losing thousands of subscribers each month.
Mr. Schreiner, you HAVEN'T been listening to our comments, or else you would actually be trying to FIX this problem.
Joe:
Here's my comment.
http://redsneakz.blogspot.com/2005/12/my-letter-to-bill-schreiner-vp-of-aol.html
Are you kidding me? We're not a bunch of "yes" men here. We're honest-to-God-flesh-and-blood PAYING customers who are voicing their displeasure about banner ads in our journals.
AOL has forgotten the first rule of business: The customer is ALWAYS right.
Before I began writing this response, there were 76 complaints (from 76 familiar screen names to boot) on this entry alone. And you can darn well bet that these people are telling their friends and family members about the shoddy customer service that AOL is providing and about the way the VP for AOL Community Programming came in like a school principal and essentially told us to "settle down."
We're not settling down. We're angry, we're disgruntled and if you've learned even one thing about bloggers, we tell it like it is.
Too bad you couldn't come in here and "share the love" like you did at your previous post. It seems when you got your promotiion, you had to leave your compassion and common sense behind.
~Peachy
Thanks Bill Schreiner! It's actually a breath of fresh air to hear your comments. AOL is not a public park. AOL is a business - meaning AOL pays for everything - bandwidth, software, research - etc etc. Someone commented here that their words were valuable. Hmmm. I'm wondering why he/she isn't writing essays for Vanity Fair or Esquire. Ads on web pages are a fact of life. Have you checked your GMail account lately? Yahoo is notorious with the ads. If you feel your words are such gold that no banner should come within ten feet of them, then I suggest you get a quill pen, dip it in ink and when you're finished, frame it using museum grade sealing paper. Bill, can I have a three-month free account if I say your picture is cute?
Peachy:
We are not AOL's customer. Bank of America is.
Sad, huh.
Hmmm ... you are sorry that the ads in the journals that we pay for have affected the way some of us feel about AOL?????
And ... you want those that have moved on to know that they will always be welcome in J-Land?????
Ummm ... those of us that are so upset that we are moving on (ARE J-LAND). AOL did not coin the J-Land (journal land) name. If I recall it was Slo Mo in correspondence with Free Peace that came up with the name as a term of endearment towards the close knit members of this community we have formed here. This has "NOTHING" to do with AOL.
I would suggest that you get permission from her to begin calling yourself VP of the J-Land Community. We have sent our message out time after time that we the people ... the writers, the poets, the artist, the photographers, the online as well as real life friends found here are J-Land. NOT THE CORPORATE OUT TO MAKE A BUCK ANY WAY WE CAN OVERLORDS OF AOL. The Vivi awards are a perfect example of this.
Those of us that have been holding out here in J-Land (international) to get an official answer from AOL regarding the banner ads have heard you loud and clear and we hope you hear us loud and clear as well ... this is not over, the problem needs to be fixed.
*** Coy ***
I guess the TimeWarner Company, the parent company of AOL doesn't think that people actually have feelings. I have not left yet but I have really not posted anything after the banner ads appeared. I am still trying to decide what actually to do. But I guess TimeWarner must be falling on harder finicial times if they are willing to tick off decent paying customers for ads that I'm sure pulls in more advertising money. How about decreasing your fee since you are getting more money now?
Tara
Bill Schreiner: I have been using AOL for a decade now, and loved the J-Land community. I am sorry that your corporate greed is so much stronger than your concern for your paying customers. I am also offended by the condesention you show towards us in your letter. I knew the ad's were here to stay, but find them so offensive that I will be moving on after the holidays. I also have a pad with the name of the advertisers right by my computer, and will be boycotting them. All this both saddens and sickens me, for AOL had a good thing going in this community, and has blown it. Margo
Thanks for taking the time to address what happened personally. For me this is the third big change that has affected my experience with AOL over the past year. I moved forward from the two earlier changes this year in mostly a positive manner. I know I can do so again and I will.
I'm in the process of restarting my photoblog on another blog provider. I'm pretty excited about continuing to share my photos online via blog. My new photoblog is going to have links out to my friends here and my friends that are not here. Ya'll have made it very easy to maintain community connections. That's sorta new for me in terms of community and it's something I'm looking forward to exploring.
Now I don't think I'm done with the Journal product. Joe tossed out enough carrots about improvements to hold my attention. I'm interested in shared blogging so I hope to see that A.S.A.P. Regardless of the advertisements, AOL does make some neat tools. I know I'm a better blogger now for having used them.
Good to see that you are still a J-Land fan despite all that has happened recently. I'm still a J-Land fan too. I think the community is going to change and I know that's entirely normal with online communities. In some respects, J-Land just got a little bigger.
Anyhow, Happy Holidays and I hope to see shared blogging on AOL in 2006!
ok..hold on! umm..what I don't understand is you said "Advertising is an important part of how we make money, and we're not ashamed of that..."
well..how come UK journals doesn't have banner ads on theirs??
Gem
I have the same question Gem just posed, why is it that the international journals don't have ads? The international locations also had file manager (for easier photo/graphic storing) earlier than we did. Why do those of us based in the U.S. seem to be cheated this way?
I also would have felt better about your 'message' to us if you had either done it in your own journal (as opposed to having Joe copy/paste your message in his journal) - or- if you had sent your message via an official AOL email. If you had created a journal to deliver your message to us, I would have felt as though you at least used this product!
Vivian
We've heard loud and clear that you are passionate about what you write about in your blogs. Some of you are convinced that the addition of ads destroys that experience. I am less certain of that.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you telling me that you don't understand why personal expression and advertising cannot coexist? Try this: a 'South Beach Diet' ad flashing above an entry about anorexia nervosa. Does that destroy the experience the blog author is trying to create? Can you really tell me it doesn't destroy that author's personal expression?
AOL is free to pursue whatever sources of revenue it desires. This is its right as a for-profit business.
This noted, a for-profit business that utilizes services and/or goods produced by those under its auspice provides remuneration for said people, save those who have previously agreed to volunteer their service.
I don't recall volunteering to let AOL use my blog to make money. In fact, I pay AOL every month for my account. Yet AOL seeks to profit from my writing without compensation.
Yeah, that sounds fair.
Here's my nickel-fifty on the subject: Lisa :-]
http://journals.aol.com/mlraminiak/ComingtotermswithMiddleAge/entries/657
Bill Schreiner, before you start shaking hands, kissing babies
and proclaiming yourself the VP of the J-Land Community ...
http://journals.aol.com/coy1234787/Dancingintherain/entries/1415
*** Coy ***
The latest complete list of AOL EXODUS J-Land Journals stands at 150 and counting. New journals are moving every day....
judi
INTEGRITY IS NOTHING BUT A
BUZZWORD AT AOL
STOP JOURNAL ADVERTISING
Today, according to AOL, is my ten year anniversary as a member. I should be happy about that, but I'm saddened at what AOL has become and how members are treated on the service.
http://journals.aol.com/upseted/JackiesQuirkyMusings/entries/258
Well, 92 comments later and its easy to assume that the Vice President for AOL Community Programming's State of the Community Address didn't go over to well. (hmm, I suppose this will be considered as just a couple dozen complaints again). Perhaps its time to send in your boss's boss's boss's boss. And please ask him to address AOL's policy for deciding which of its services would be included in its membership fees and which would not, and their method of informing the members of the changes as its once 'members only' service became available to the entire internet. I ask because I'm really concerned over the fact that when we began our journals they were ad free and AOL Members only. When AIM journals were introduced with ads, we were still ad-free. And now 6 months later ads are placed on our journals as well and we are consoled with 'I can understand why some believed they never would' (have ads). I believed they never would because I was never told that they ever would. I think AOL understands we believed they never would because they WANTED us to believe they never would. Where was the letter warning us otherwise? Where was the post on the Editor's journal, or Scalzi's journal warning us otherwise? Especially after our initial reaction to the ads on the AIM journals...
I would like to have this issue addressed officially and on the record. I think this is a fair question and I believe one that we all deserve to have answered in all seriousness. I would appreciate if you could double down and speed up on the delivery of this request, I am eager to hear the answer. Thank you.
The Diaspora is now over 150, including many of the most heavily visited sites.
BLOGGERS 1rst ed. December 4, 2005 Alex AlbGlinka Alh Amy (Diva) Amy (Central) Andrea Angel (Pixie Dust) Angel (Pleasures) Angelia (Secrets) Angelia (Dark Moons) Anna Ari Antonette Armandt Astaryth Ayn Barbara Becky Bedazzzled Beth Boiseladie Bon and Mal Bookncoffee Bosox Bram Brandy Brenden Candace (Searching) Candace (Kicking) Carly Cat Chance Charles Cheryl Chris Christina Chuck Colleen Courtenay Chris Cole Coy Cynthia Dalene Darla Dawn Allynn Deb Debbie Deslily Diva Donna Emily Felicia Flava Floralilia Freely Floralilia Wisdom Gabreael Gail Gannet Girl Gator Gem Gigi Heather Holly Jacki Jaime Jamilyn Jeff Jean Marie Jen Jenn Jennifer Jessie Jim Jimmy Jlandvoices Jody Judi Judith Karen Kari Kat Katherine Kathleen Kell Kelly Kris Kristal Laura Levi Lily Lisa (Heart) Lisa (Truth) Lori Loretta Louie Lynda Mara Marissa Margo Mary (Contrary) Mary (Hunybea) Mary (Midnight) Mary (Woods) Maryanne Michael (All Things) Michael (Dream) Mortimer Mrs. L. Nelle Nikki Omz Pam Patrick Paul Peachy Penny Promise Rebecca Anne Red Remo Rob Robbie Robin Sarah Shaz Shelli Shelly Sie Silk Smukke Swt Dlphn Sylvia Stacy-Lynn Steven Suellen Suzy Tawnya Thebludragoness Theresa Tianka Tom Trish Vicki Vince Virginia Vivian Wil
http://deabvt.blogspot.com/
V
And i Quote from November 30 of Joe's journal:
"* Flash Takeover Ad Banners:
Product Manager Susan (I will announce her blog in my next entry) beat up some of the ad people and made them swear that they wouldn't run any more ads that extend beyond the 728x90 ad banner space. So no more flying motorcycles jumping over your entries.
Oh really? That's really strange because 3 times in the matter of minutes as i visited journals that i read that FLYING MOTORCYCLE CAME AT ME!
What's the story Joe?? Can we please find out if this is going to continue or not??
Joe: Please excuse the intrusion...
Blow me, Bill. We are immune to your Corpo-speak, and unlike the minions toiling beneath your visage, are unimpressed by your vision of service excellence.
BTW-I saw that haircut on Luke Skywalker in the first StarWars. But it looks "good" on you...
Okay!
That's 92 to 3!!
GAME OVER!!!!!!
- And, to the winners: ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!
"MERRY CHRISTMAS! Here's your "chunk" of coal!!"
Sincerely AOL??!!!!!
oops, make that 93 to 3!
I'm with Remo: Blow Me!! You Suck!
(not you, Joe. Thanks for all your help. <..ask Susan what that means)
Well, Mr. Schreiner all that I can say is that I am a bit disappointed with AOL regarding the journals. Why place ads on ALL Journals? Why can't you place them on NON AOL Memebers journals. It would be so much easier to distinguish PAID AOL members from NON PAID members. I love journaling and I had recently stopped journaling on AOL because of those HUGE Banner Ads you chose to place on our journals. What happen to the "Frills" of being an AOL Member?
Why is AOL so concerned with making money? Don't you all get enough from the $23.95 a month plus added extra fees for the extra's we request from you? Honestly, you are partnered with Google and several other HUGE companies and there is no way that AOL can be lacking of any funds.
Tell me why should I come back and start journaling on AOL again? IMHO, I rather pay another Blogging site yearly to keep the ads off so my readers are NOT bombarded with the SAME ads over and over again. Currently, I don't see it as an option to start blogging again on my AOL journal, until you decide what areas you want to make "Exclusive" for Paying AOL Members, without adding any of those stupid ads and HUGE ads at the TOP of our journals to top it off.
Here is my idea for AOL: You can put those HUGE ads at the BOTTOM or maybe give us the option to decide where we want to put them or if we even want them. Thanks for listening.
http://journals.aol.com/coldheartfemale/ThinBlueLine/
I put this back in John's journal, but why not put the ads on the bottom? That way, it's not as distracting, nor makes the journals look funny, and AOL can advertise? Maybe you could send that up the line.
Just a thought,
Blessings,
Sara
This letter was the final push I needed. I just got off the phone with AOL and cancelled. So I suppose I should thank you, Bill, for saving me ten bucks a month hereafter.
But before I go, this: AOL isn't ashamed of the fact that it relies on advertising to make revenue? Fine. No one expects it to be. We GET that you're in dire need of more customers and are fighting to stay competitive. We GET that you need to adjust your business model to make your services available to more people and increase your audience share.
AOL seems NOT TO GET the fact that while they're trying to build MORE customers, they should AVOID doing things to cost them the LONG-TIME, CORE users who've been dutifully paying their membership dues for -- until recently -- exclusive services. If your goal is to EXPAND, you should expand by ADDING, not by adding HERE and subtracting THERE. Even if the gains outnumber the losses, why do things to cause LOSSES at all?
What AOL SHOULD HAVE DONE is to put the ads ONLY on blogs created after a predetermined start date. That way, the longtime members -- which you seem to think is in such a MINORITY -- wouldn't have had to deal with them, and your new, growing customer base wouldn't have known the difference, anyway. Then, EVERYONE would have been happy.
After ten years, I felt compelled to suggest this: I hope you'll consider this scenario for FUTURE changes.
Patrick
Attacking AOL employees personally and professionally has not and will not alter the reality that ads are remaining on our blogs. Neither will spamming journals/blogs with hatred and anti-AOL messages.
These emotionally-charged attacks reflect more negatively on attackers than on AOL.
No one wants these ads on our blogs; however, it's time for attackers to either move on and blog OR move out and blog elsewhere.
Members have never owned or paid for blog space on AOL. When AOL decides to promote blogging as an income generator, maybe they will have learned a few lessons from this fiasco. Maybe they, "in the forseeable future," will consult with bloggers, offer ad-free space and include additional competitive options.
The 1st Edition of the Moved J-Landers are out. I have posted them in my sidebar.
Gabreael
http://gabreaelsbodymindandspirit.blogspot.com/
BLOGSPOTTING does a follow-up:
http://blogs.businessweek.com/the_thread/blogspotting/archives/2005/12/aol_responds_to_1.html
"Some of you are convinced that the addition of ads destroys that experience. I am less certain of that."
That's brilliant. Please don't speak for me, Mr. Schreiner!!!
This really is the final straw for me.
Good riddance AOL-- your corporate policies make me sick-- I can't even stand looking at your Welcome Screen at this point. Jamuary 1st-- the deadline for me to archive my AOL journal entries and hook up with a new ISP.
You are a dying company. You have no credibility. Many of my friends have made fun of me for still having AOL. Well, that'll end soon.
Your advertisers will not have my journal to get hits from anymore.
--Albert, now at http://AlbertsWorldofArtsyFun.blogspot.com/
AOL has disrespected me once again. My journals will be deleted and it will take hours to copy all my work from them. I despise your company and will be changing ISP's ASAP.
At least Blogger.com which is a **FREE** journal hosting site gives you the option and will pay you if you let them put banners on your blog.
Someone add another to the list, I have moved as well.
www.wouldyoulikeacupoftea.blogspot.com
welcome prayinmantis4.... we will be passing your link around and adding it to the exodus list. Anybody else have a new link? We have been adding them all day.
judi
I cannot believe your attitude here. If any of your marketing people applied logic to your decisions you might have at least one clue. You offer journals with ADS to AIM members for FREE. You then put them on the paid member's journals after promising not to. The solution is clear: All who are paid members, as I have been for eight years, need to cancel their paid accounts and open up FREE AIM accounts. OR better yet go to BlogSpot and journal FREE. If you agree to host ads on your journals, they you are paid for them. Only someone impaired would want to stay on AOL to pay for this treatment. Thank you for making it crystal clear to me that my business means nothing to you. I will be happy to cancel MY account, my son's and my parents. Hard to believe that no one there has any business sense at all. Also, your last "UPGRADE" caused major problems in my computer. The last thing I want or need is another of your upgrades. It seems your tech guys are as incompetent as your customer service guys. BYE BYE.
This is pathetic. If I wasn't dealing with a personal tragedy in my life right now, I'd really lay into you, AOL. If not for the banners, I might be writing about my experience on my AOL Journal. But no way will I sully my family's experiences by writing about them on your gaudy billboards which advertise services I despise. I can't decide if it is stupidity or insensitivity behind this decision to put ads on journals. Maybe it is both. Either way, I am out of here. I will never post in my AOL Journal again.
Theresa Williams-Author
http://theresawilliams-author.blogspot.com/
h
I see I waited far too long this weekend to launch into my disgust toward Mr. Schreiner, whose picture just screams "compassion" by the way. I guess it's hard to smile when your company is losing customers by the thousands and the higher-ups feel they must exploit an entire thriving community with ad banners to make a buck.
Can't say I blame you there, Bill. It would be hard for me to fight a disgusted grimace as well.
Does anyone else have an AOL Keyword for Customer Service? The one I have isn't working.
http://journals.aol.com/hunybea4him/HunybeasOpenJournal/entries/1685
I wrote that earlier this week and said all I had to say. I was almost ready to stay and hope for the best.. almost.. I said ALMOST appeased by the disclaimers but after reading this kiss off letter from Bill there is NO QUESTION.. my AOL account is gone after the Holidays! And I know I am already taking one of my friends with me. she doesn't even have a journal but after discussing the difference between AIM and AOL and the way AOL treats it's paying customers she agrees and finds it more cost effective for her to cut her dial-up aol and go to dsl (finally girl) and have a free AIM screen name AND NEVER CLICKI ON ANY AD BANNERS. That is just ONE of many in my circle who I will be talking about how sucky AOL is and urging them to leave with me.
It is a shame really.. I loved the community going on here.. sadly the ones who really pull the strings see blogs as the same as chats or message boards and don't get it.. and how can they if they don't even have their own blog and DONT listen to the people they Pay to have one and run the community. They heard our complaints.. but they didn't listen.. big difference.
Here's a thought for all those who are canceling their AOL accounts. Why don't you take that money you pay for AOL and donate it to the victims of Hurricane Katrina??? They need it more than AOL does.
Seriously people there are more important things going on in this world. You should be happy to have a journal, there are people in the south that don't even have a warm bed to sleep in!!!!
It still amazes me all of the complaints, no one likes a whiner. Stop your moaning and groaning and just cancel your accounts already. If you want justice, that is the only way to do it.
Cindy
Bill Schreiner... I'm disgusted with your lack of empathy, compassion and interest in the good folks of the journal community who elevated AOL's name. This community isn't a chat room and it isn't a message board. It is people's thoughts and lives, and you soiled them with these ads and your condescending letter. You let a golden opportunity pass. With a little finesse and insight, you could have turned this entire public relations nightmare into something positive if you would have just got you head out of your ass and started thinking outside of the box. I was holding on to the hope that AOL would do something other than treat it's customers like redheaded bastard stepchildren. Well, this redheaded bastard stepchild is moving out, and I'll be taking my non-AOL reader base with me <which is considerable>!
Judith
http://journals.aol.com/jtuwliens/MirrorMirrorontheWall
EZEWRITER1 grouses about our protesting and suggests we ought to move along.
Guess what, EZE? We're going to continue protesting until the advertising is gone. WE made this community what it is. Thugs moved in - and you can count on us to defend our territory. That's our Right.
Get the picture?
Your "logic" is about the same as recommending that people who don't like the thugs moving into your neighborhood ought to either tolerate it, or simply move out.
Oh my god. They're not thugs! They're ADS! Ads don't walk around with concealed weapons trying to hurt our families. A little dramatic don't you think? Then again, what would AOL be without the resident drama queens? I find it very sad that some people have nothing better to do with their so called life than to sit around making some stupid little advertisements their life's mission. Why not go to Starbucks (if you aren't boycotting them for having commercials on your cable tv that you paid for) and get a cup of coffee. Settle down. Take a deep breath. Meet some people. Step away from the computer for a minute. I promise. It'll be good for you.
Or you can "continue protesting until the advertising is gone". Good luck with that. It's been clearly stated that the ads aren't going away. I suppose you'll be protesting until the day you die. Very sad that you have to spend every day of your life (esp. during the holidays) protesting. What a negative existence that must be. You have my pity.
What gets me is that folks who are protesting the ads are deemed the only ones insulting others? I don't think so. Everyone is allowed an opinion. Some folks have been nasty to Joe, which is uncalled for. He is just the messenger and stuck with all the brouhaha. But, as far as members insulting other members, from the comments I see here and on John's banner entries, those who don't care about the ads seem to feel they have free rein to be nasty to those who are protesting. That's just not right. When are we going to see "warnings" not to harass the members who are protesting the ads? It works both ways, yet the nastiness from those who don't care goes on and on and doesn't rate its own entry "warning" such as John posted.
Hmmm....
very good point upseted... we all took note of what got posted at John's blog.... the bias was obvious and a disappointment. It is also a disappointment that some are making up screen names to comment against the protesters.
I say whatever I have to say under my own screen name, and it is NEVER wrong to stand up for what you believe in.
judi
To have compared our journals, our works of art and inspiration, to message boards, was a very shallow and degrading comment or at least demonstrates a lack of any experience in working to create a personal space where one speaks their heart and their beliefs. Perhaps if Bill had created his own journal, and understood the value and regard it can have, he would then understand our feelings of violation.
I will continue to protest that which I feel is not right. Our protests are not a form of entertainment for us. This is not fun. We are not happy. I would prefer to be spending my time doing other things, however we are trying to make changes for the better.
Virginia
Tonight, just to read my AOL email, here is a list of all the advertising/marketing/shopping links (*) on the Welcome screen:
Middle left, entertainment– *buy soundtrack to Rent, shopping – *5 ultimate gifts for women, *gifts under $50, lifestyle – *search for custom closet systems
AOL Directory: *shopping highlighted in red
Upper right: *Shopping tab
Below my weather section: *big ad for phone – RAZRVA
Below that, section has *Shopping tab displayed by default with *GAP ad, *shopping buddy link, *deals and steals, *gifts for him, *hot toys
Also on AOL section: *order free photo prints, *Ebay
(did I miss any?)
Barely any room left on the screen for real information…. One rotating screen that has news, and a little weather info and part of the AOL directory that isn’t dedicated to shopping.
As AOL has already taken up so much space with advertising, how much more money, really, are you making by desecrating our journals?
There is less advertising on my free Yahoo space. Why is that?
Virginia
Just speaking for me, I still haven't figured out why some people feel it necessary to insult anybody, one way or the other. People have the right to their own opinions. And, as long as blogs are public, people have the right to state those opinions.
And, isn't the point of a blog to stir discussion? Namecalling, last time I looked, was not a required part of the rules of discussion.
But that's just me. Resume your sniping.
~~ jennifer
thanks for the posting Joe. Sorry that it has to be
nat
Joe, you are doing a great job. I like and respect you. As for what he said, let me guess. New stuff...raising prices? Wouldn't surprise me! I can deal with the ads. I have seen ads all over the web. I tune them out. But the ones that pop up and go all over my journal? No!! That is just plain low down! Not you Joe, the other dude. Oh and I am still getting two of the same comments! Every single time! Please........! I am running out of valium!
Thank you, Joe, for posting this letter.
Unfortunately, this condescending messgae just confirmed my opinoins about avarice online.
I don't appreciate the "take it or leave it" attitude. That's just plain old bad customer service.
Hubris comes before a fall.
:P Loretta
I stayed..Why? for a few reasons...AOL protects my computer with it's virus software and other firewalls and such....AOL+Computer=Healthy Computer in my eyes! and i will continue to pay for my computers health! I have been with AOL Journals since they first came out!
The Ads had me Steamed to say the least...yes i lashed out as many did at Joe...and then upon a sign off and cup of Coffee..i cooled off! So Joe I appoligize for any misguided steam over the Ad placement!
It's like Yelling at the waiter for bad cooked food, Not their Fault!
I am glad AOL Exec's can see how they messed up with the delivery of such a huge change to our community! I do hope any changes from here on out will be broadcasted via Magic Smoke or other methods in advance. I think some of the new features you have laid out for us are great ones..especially the New Skins feature for 2006....we have had only custom color change Options since AOL Journals Began...and it's time you guys step it up..and compete with the other services that provide skins and html customizations! I honestly think with that...people will come back and forget about the hoopla with the Ads.
I've looked beyond the Ads now....I know that with every Negitive Feature AOL puts out...Positive ones do Follow in time!
A Continuing Customer...
Brittany (OrangeKiss3)
<<I know that with every Negitive Feature AOL puts out...Positive ones do Follow in time!>>
Brittany,
I told myself the same thing for ten years. Unfortunately, I just got tired of getting more negative things. If you're on a PC, then AOL's virus and spyware protection is terrific. If you're on a Mac, it doesn't exist.
For at least a few of us who DID decide to leave, the problem is that we've been conditioned into thinking that it's okay to sit tight through the bad with the HOPE that the good will eventually follow. That's NOT customer service.
If I'm going to pay for a service, I expect the good features to come first and foremost. If something bad happens, I want it dealt with immediately and to my satisfaction. I'm tired of trying to stay hopeful that for every blunder, there MIGHT be one or two good things down the pipe to take my mind off of it.
I'm not saying you're wrong for staying: if that's what's best for you, then by all means stay. No one has the right to tell you what YOU should or shouldn't do. But your remark ironically captures what some of us had just had enough of.
Sounds like BS to me. As of 2006, I'm outta here. After all, if I want to use AOL message boards or email service, I can now have that for free via AIM... if I wanted it, that is. But I'm through paying for more ad space.
FUAOL.
I'm sorry to say that I removed my journal this evening from AOL . Flashing ads that sell mortages, and other such high-stress collateral are just NOT appropriate in a meditation journal.
It defeats the point of having built a peaceful, meditative place within my journal for my readers to go after a stressful day.
I was once so proud when AOL featured my journal on the main AOL journal page. And, I was charmed when my loyal readers commented repeatedly that they loved my journal well enough to return regularly to it within the AOL journal space.
But, none of my readers will continue to come to a meditation journal that is filled with flashing ads. I think about my readers first when I write, and I have worked hard to meet the needs of my audience. So, although I have always loved AOL, I have to remove my journal and take it to a blogging host that has a more appropriate environment.
Candace York
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